Dr. Robert Melamede and Medical Cannabis Journal

By Ron Niehouse (MCJ) (California)


Medical Cannabis Journal


Conducted By: Ron Niehouse

Transcribed by: Megan Wright

September / 2010




Interview with Dr. Bob Melemede


MCJ: Dr. Bob thank you for being here today. We’ve had some conversations in the past, so we’ve covered a lot of things with you. I was lucky enough to meet someone named Mieko last weekend, Joey’s mom. She made it very clear that you were one of her heroes. I would like to know how you got involved with that case.


DB: There was an educational conference put on by a group called 420University. I was a speaker there as was Mieko. We met there and spent some time and talked. That’s how I got to know her.


MCJ: Have you ever had a chance to meet her son?


DB: No I have not but I did go on the internet and see a lot of information about Joey.


MCJ: Typically when you think of autism, you don’t naturally think of cannabis. It isn’t something that you really hear about too often. Is that correct?


DB: Well I’ve seen a few cases where people have treated their kids with it. There is some information online. As with everything else with cannabis, most of the patient evidence is anecdotal but it certainly doesn’t surprise me that it would work. Again, you have to remember that this is a very magical plant because of the way it works on the endocannabinoid system which happens to regulate everything in our body.


MCJ: Exactly. They pretty much gave him a death date. That’s pretty scary for a mom to go thru. You have to admit that’s pretty brave of her to go as far as she went with medicating her son and doing the right thing. I have to say I have a lot of respect for what she’s doing and I’m glad to have met her. I’m going to be covering that story as well in this issue.


DB: Oh good. That’s a good one to cover. It turns out autism is a rapidly growing condition. The reasons for that are not quite certain. This certainly looks like it can help a subset. If you can help one, you can help others with a related condition that could benefit.


You’ve got to remember most of the diseases, when you look at a particular symptom whether its autism or if it’s cancer. That is often manifestation of a variety of different types of possible imbalances that settle down on that condition. So where something might be good for a particular starting point from a particular cause it might not necessarily work on another. So those are all of the kinds of things that we have to find out with ongoing research and experimentation and courageous people who are willing to go on.


On the one hand they are courageous because they are open-minded enough to break the mold, on the other hand; they are doing what is logical. If you really think about it, if your kid is starving, who in the world doesn’t know about marijuana and the munchies. How could you not think and act on this for your child as a parent? You have a choice of breaking a stupid law or watching your child die, that’s ludacris.


MCJ: Yeah, that’s pretty simple.


DB: There are some people who would still not do it.


MCJ: You are right, absolutely. That’s exactly why it is a situation that I’m interested in. There are so many people out there that fear persecution so much that they would refuse to use it, and watch their child waste away.


DB: Those are the BLIPS.


MCJ: Exactly.


DB: It simple. They just have a biochemical deficiency. They are not capable of rewiring.


MCJ: To the point that I’ve met people who ask me why I would use cannabis versus vicodin. I couldn’t even answer those types of questions. Where do I start?


DB: Yeah, I know. It’s really amazing how some people just don’t get it. From my opinion, once you realize the magnitude of the impact that cannabis has in a positive sense for most people most of the time, on our biochemistry. It should really be considered a food and an essential nutrient.


MCJ: I agree 100%. One thing I’ve never had the chance to discuss or heard much about, not sure why. The class that you teach at University of Colorado; what kinds of prerequisites are required? That’s in Colorado Springs correct?


DB: Yes. Well I started out having and it is still on the books as needing cell biology as a prerequisite. I make exceptions to that, pretty much whenever somebody wants. This is why I probably shouldn’t have it as a prerequisite. I do it because I want people to understand if biology is not their major, if for example they are a media major or political science major, it somehow fits into their studies. I’ve had all kinds of students come.  In fact there is usually something in your field that you can relate to marijuana. The nature of the cause is such that the students have to give a presentation. So if the student is not into biology, they can do for example the history of hemp if they are a history major. Or political rationales behind prohibition for a political science major. They can come up with their own thing. The point is that everybody gets a research project and we all learn from everyone else. We all grade everyone else. It is an unusual format but the students like it. What I’m seeing now are more and more students that are patients.


MCJ: Yes, I’m sure, especially in Colorado.


DB: Yeah, well, that’s why.


MCJ: Wow that’s very interesting. So the cool part about this is that you don’t necessarily be a scientist or biologist and be going into say an MD career. You’re not just focusing on endocannabinoid system; you are talking about the whole landscape of cannabis.


DB:  Well that’s what this course is and medical marijuana is how many things can you plug into that?


MCJ: So what is the class exactly called?


DB: Endocannabinoids and Medical Marijuana.


MCJ: Great. At one point, I think you kind of coined a phrase “reverse-prohibition”?


DB: Yes I did. That would change the world pretty dramatically. Instead of just ending prohibition and going into a kind-of reduced version of what we have now. I think we should reverse it in that we should complete the experiment. The experiment being prohibition. To negate prohibition is to return to the mid-line and I think what we should try is the over half of the experiment where everybody on government and law enforcement has to test positive in their urine. What we are really looking at the two ends of the prohibition spectrum, I firmly believe, are people who are altered in their endocannabinoid biochemistry. You have prohibitionist who tend to be very rigid in their thinking, not easily re-educated. They learn something fine the first time, but they can never unlearn it. If you think about the properties of cannabis you can understand without me going into all of the molecular details which support the easier observations. We all know that marijuana influences the memory. It’s kind of a no-brainer. If you can’t forget what you’ve learned in order to replace it with something better, then you are stuck with what you got in there the first time. That is kind of part of what the endocannabinoid system does neurologically. It is so complicated everywhere. It’s all pervasive. No matter where you look, what topic you at, there are endocannabinoid connections. The reason for that is because the system evolved in a very central position with respect to energy flow. When we burn food and are alive and doing things, we essentially activate our biochemistry which means we use more energy, which means we make free-radicals and free-radicals are really the friction of life. They deteriorate the organization of our flowing biochemistry. That really is what constitutes life. In other words we can’t be alive without making free-radicals. Free-radicals are believed to be involved to all age-related illnesses, meaning Auto Immune Disease, Cognitive Dysfunction, Cardiovascular Disease, aging itself, and cancer! You’ve got pot that everyone knows gives you the munchies, so now you are starting the flow. In response to that in the problems generated by that motivating phenomena- eating. Now you are going to do things. You are going to have activity. You are going to be in different places. All of the characteristics of life require care, because of again, the free-radicals in particular. So the cannabinoid system in many respects, it’s not always so obvious but seems to be a general proof, is that what they do is to help buffer us from the negative consequences of free-radicals. So all of the medicinal properties that we see with cannabis are really a matter of how idiosyncratically unique to each of us. We have our flowing biochemistry and there are points in it that are not as robust and healthy as they should be. As time goes on and you accumulate the friction, those are the links that break. This is a function, again, of our genetics and life’s history.


Cannabis is always involved in all those different things because it involves the immune system, the digestive system, cardiovascular system, skin, nervous system, endocrine system, essentially it is involved in everything. So essentially everybody has a weak point and those are the ones that manifest as you get older. That is why cannabis is good for everybody for the most part. Of course there are those really rare exceptions where cannabis is going to push you too far in a certain direction. Maybe you’re close to a schizophrenic to begin with and you start using cannabis and you can’t deal with that. That is a logical kind of a thing. It isn’t going to cause the schizophrenia. That isn’t the case at all.  There are many schizophrenics, it seems to be very helpful.  That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a subset of people who would be harmed by it. Where we shift into that direction because again, we are all different. It is the magnitude of what this plant has to offer humanity and the fact that we’ve got insane people running our country and our governments who have taken and anti-aging drug that kills cancer and who’s activity is found in mother’s milk and throw people in jail for that? I don’t care whether you talk about using, selling, growing, it doesn’t matter. It is something that is good for humanity and we have these mutants? It is obvious that they have to collect in the government because how else could we consistently have a perpetuation of this social mental illness?


MCJ: Now we used the term BLIP earlier. For our readers, could you give us a brief explanation of how that theory works?


BM: Yeah, well, we’ve already touched on it in a sense as we talked about forgetting. We have to forget to replace things. Think about your own conciousness, your own existence. You can either be projecting into the future with your mind or you can be remembering something from the past, or you could actually be experiencing the now. Those are the three places that we distribute our being. Some people favor one versus the other due to genetics and life history. Their nutrition is also a part of their life history. There are actual consequences to whether or not you are forward looking or backward looking. It’s pretty obvious. If you are forward-looking then you are embracing change. Nobody knows what the future brings. From where you are at, it is going to bring change. It isn’t to say that it isn’t going to carry with you things from the now and the past. You have more change in the future than no change in the past.


MCJ: There you go.


BM: The past has happened the future is unknown. It is a bunch of probabilities. So if you are going to interface with those varying probabilities then you have to have a robust biochemistry that allows you to take in the new and to utilize it in a constructive and positive manner otherwise it would be selected against.


In contrast, the backward-looking people don’t have that robustness. They want the future to be more like the past because then it means that they won’t be confronted with the unknowns that are going to be associated with change. No matter what, we are all going down a path. We are doing certain things that have a feed coming into us. If an unknown comes then you’ve got to adapt that feed.


MCJ: That is why it is so important when we are talking about prohibition.


DB: That’s why it is important to reverse it rather than just end it. It would create a different consciousness. So the people those are backward-looking, happen by virtue of the obvious, they are going to naturally tend to agree with one another because they are looking back at what already happened. Where as the people who are looking into the future, they don’t know what is going t happen  so what they tend to do is agree to disagree.


MCJ: That makes a lot of sense.


DB: That is what is so characteristic of pot-heads. They are mellow. Sure, you want to do this or that? They are open-minded. They embrace change. As it turns out, one of the characteristics that has been measured in people who consume cannabis is that they are optimistic. What does the word optimism mean? It means you are facing the unknowns of the future with a positive attitude.


MCJ: That’s right.


DB: That means you are ready to take whatever change is coming. Well that means that you are cannabinoid endowed. It is intrinsic in the population that you have people who are above and below average with respect to how cannabinoids regulate open-mindedness. That is an inevitable truth. So all I’m saying is that, in terms of government, what is selected historically. The power within a country. I don’t care how you shape it. Either a dictatorship, or a democracy. There still tends to be a concentration of people who want control and power. Along with that there is aggressiveness and a singular focus. I’m of the belief that, as well as the commonality of backward looking people gather, because then you have a group with power. I believe they wind up concentrating there. Again, because of mankind’s current position in the biosphere, meaning we’ve got billions of people eating and crapping and throwing things out and making things, you know, flow. Which is generally good, but what is the carrying capacity of the planet when we have pollution everywhere? I don’t care whether you are talking about thermal pollution, chemical pollution is undeniable. Air pollution is undeniable. It should be a no-brainer that we have to have a government that is responsive not to their vision that the past that they trying to make it into the future. But rather that they are doing their best to monitor man’s impact and trying to minimize our impact on the biosphere because that is what we require for sustaining ourselves. So if mankind is going to survive we’ve got to be able to replace BLIPS with FLIPS and get them back to the idea of reversing prohibition.


MCJ: Right. It makes sense to me. I’m glad to be able to bring that to those of our readers who are new to this concept. Now while we are on the topic, can you give us another example of how far from equilibrium thermodynamics work?


DB: Yes. Forget about life for a second. Just there is a variety of chemical reactions and conditions that demonstrate when energy is flowing from a source. For something to flow it has to go somewhere. From a source to sink you have flow. If you have collections of the appropriate molecules in a container thru which that energy is flowing. Then there are circumstances where dumb, inanimate molecules actually cooperate with one another in a highly improbable fashion. They do so because by the system, by the collection of molecules supervising itself, in other words kind of getting smarter. It goes by the formal term of negative entropy. By doing that they will produce more entropies the surroundings in their environment even if they were not there. That seems to be the driving force for creativity. Once you had pre-biotic molecules cooperating with one another and forming relationships in space and in time rather than randomness, that’s what evolved into life and that’s how life evolved into us. It is the same kind of process occurring again within us. It is just really a manifestation of this ongoing far from equilibrium phenomena of creativity which by the way happens in a non-linear fashion. We make these jumps that are called phase-changes. You can imagine going from no life, lets say random chemistry and starting to have organized chemistry. Then having organized chemistry jump into life. Then having primitive life, like procariots bacteria literally changing their environment. Originally the earth did not have an oxygen rich environment.


What happened was photosynthetic organisms and chemosynthetic organisms made so much biomass and along the way also, oxygen so that now you had a source in-sync. So now the situation was far from equilibrium again instead of just solar incidence now you actually had organic material that could be burned. Then you had the oxygen there and you had the organic material. So that prompted another flow that manifests itself in higher life forms, well ucariots, we have nuclei. That is all of our plants and animals come from that initial ucariotic cell that has a rearranged higher level of complexity. Then you started to have cooperativity.


MCJ: Ucariots, what is that for me and those of our reader who are not familiar with this term?


DB: “U” means true and “cariot” means chromosome. So they have nuclei and they have what is called organelles. They have higher levels of organization within the cell is what it amounts to. Meeting the same kinds of needs that the procariots before they had nuclei and true chromosomes. They are only DNA. It is the level of complexity of how energy flows thru the biochemistry that determines what is going on. So eventually you had multi-cellular organisms that started to cooperate. Then you had another split where the tube that runs thru us, our anus and our mouth with the tube in between. You can have two kinds of organisms. Those who form ass first, which happens to be us and all vertebrates; versus the ones who form head first which are proteasomes. Which are insects and crustaceans, things like that. Turns out, that we all have endocannabinoid-like fat molecules. They are all lipids. However, we don’t all have receptors. Only our entire line of vertebrates have cannabinoid receptors. Along with that cannabinoid receptors are modulating all of the other important advances that came like a true immune system, a true respiratory system, a true circulatory system, skeletal system, and muscular system. Look at our line of vertebrates and how it has changed versus the insects and how they largely haven’t changed. They are good at survival as they are. Our biological history is good at changing. We all know that the endocannabinoid system is highly involved in that. That’s why it winds up regulating our skeletal system, nervous system, immune system and such. It is because it has to protect us from ourselves in some ways. If you have too much flow, it generates too much friction then you screw up the system. The cannabinoid system is there to monitor and integrate everything and make sure that it is as cool as can be. Which is why, if you knock it out, you will have a decreased life-span. They can make genetically engineered mice, called “knock-outs” that don’t have the CB1 gene, the one that gets you high. They die prematurely. They are very sensitive to pain. They are nervous. Just exactly what you would expect from being “un-high”.


MCJ: Right. Now that you mentioned “un-high”, what is “high”?


DB:”What is high?” is an interesting thing. From my understanding, is what it really is a state of relaxation and low-stress so that the energy that can flow thru you up to your potential can be utilized more creatively and in a more healthy fashion. So it is almost like being narrow-minded. If you are narrow-minded, think of the stifling of creativity. How experiences and what flows thru you become limited because your brain is basically a little broken. Which, by the way, we are all a little broken. You can always enhance that activity. Again, it has to be regulated. If someone was hallucinating and tripping their brains out, well, we would not have a functional society right? That doesn’t mean it can’t be beneficial once in a while. Obviously you wouldn’t have a very functional society if everyone was too stoned to do anything. So that extreme is ridiculous. The other extreme would be what we see with those knock-out mice. A bunch of uptight mice who are nervous and stressed and die out young. We don’t really want that either. The balance of those things are regulated by our endocannabinoid system and the food we eat because omega-3’s and essential fatty acids make our endocannabinoids, which is why they are good for you. This is why it protects your heart.


MCJ: Now, let’s talk just a moment on melatonin. The endocannabinoids has the ability to regulate melatonin, is that correct?


DB: You know, there is one paper that I’ve seen the graph that shows rising melatonin is the function of marijuana or THC. I can’ remember all of the details. I have never been able to get that paper. Therefore, I’m limited in what I can really say on it.


MCJ: No problem. Now, you were featured in a movie. This movie really has changed the way I’ve looked at things and helped me to change the way other people look at things. I was lucky enough to meet the man who made the movie. I understand he’s a friend of yours, Len Richmond. The movie we are speaking about of course is “What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?” Now, I think the movie is just phenomenal. What do you think of the final product?


DB: I think he did a really good job. I think he’s raising a very important question. We don’t know, no matter which side of the cannabis-fence you are on, unambiguously that marijuana kills cancer or that marijuana doesn’t kill cancer. We don’t know. What I know is that there is a ton of science that shows that cannabinoids used in tissue culture and used in animal models will absolutely kill cancer cells, yes. We are talking about breast cancer, prostate cancer, leukemia, lymphoma, bone cancer, lung cancer, brain cancer, thyroid cancer. It seems to kill all cancers in these animal models. This brings up a really pathetic question. I have over 500 articles on cannabinoids and cancer. With that much science out there, that huge weight of literature, 99% of it says cannabis is good for killing cancer. There are a few studies where a particular cell line was stimulated by THC. Again, we expect diversity. This doesn’t have to be for everything all of the time to make sense.


MCJ: Right, it’s almost like a “snake-oil” type of fear for some people just as it is. When we have something like cannabis, which is one of a kind, really. It is not really a drug but cures or treats many diseases for which have no cure or treatment, some people do, I think, have that hesitation to believe in it. We do claim that it does a lot of things.  Anybody that claims that many things, we are trained to be hesitant of that kind of stuff.


DB: We should be!


MCJ: Right. We should be. The truth is there are still people that are still on that level.


DB: Again, it’s driven by that small fraction of prohibitionists, these biochemically-deficient people. They do have an element of power because of their dogmatic uniformity, you know? We were at a city council meeting here at Colorado Springs. There were a couple of prohibitionists there. I went over to one of them and I asked, “Can I explain a little bit to you about the science? It might show you a different perspective if you see what is really going on? They wouldn’t talk to me. They didn’t want to hear anything I had to say.


MCJ: Interesting.


DB: It’s just a reaffirmation about the concept of BLP’s. These people, it hurts them to hear anything that is in conflict with their vision.


MCJ: They have to make their brain change and ingest it and they just can’t do it.


DB: Yes, and it becomes a big stressor to them. It is obvious this is what is going on with the people who are in our government otherwise we wouldn’t be talking about this, the way we are.


MCJ: Exactly.


DB: We are looking at 80% of the American public were in favor of medical marijuana. Hey, 80% of the public didn’t vote for Obama or Reagan or any of these other turkeys.


MCJ: Good point.


DB: Eighty percent of the people are voting for positively pot!


MCJ: On this note, I am so very careful and do not bring this up in an interview unless I am certain the conversation can handle it. However, how do you feel about the California Prop 19 to Tax and Regulate Marijuana?


DB: I think we have to be realistic. Realistic to me is that we do have a government who is enriched with these hyper-linear narrow minded people. We have all of these laws and regulations in place. That is a part of how our system works. As screwed up as a lot of that is, that is how we are. We are a part of this, it is a product of us. So what we’ve got to do is eventually change things. I think the way things will really be changed is the manifestation of the truth of what we are dealing with here. There’s no way that it is just going to be legal without implanting itself into being a part of the tax and regulate. Do I think it belongs there? Absolutely not! It’s a goddamn plant that you grow in the backyard. It’s been done for ten thousand years. It is the first plant that was agriculturally grown by the pygmies no less, ten thousand years ago. This is a no-brainer that once again it is obvious that there is a social mental illness at work here. Why can’t I just take this plant and grow it and do whatever I want with it? As long as I’m taking care of whatever else is necessary to do my part in the world.


MCJ: Sure, of course. So you don’t think it goes far enough? I’ve heard many people echo those thoughts. Yet, if you were in California, you would probably have to pull the lever.


DB: Oh yes, absolutely. Simply because the impact that it will have on this country is huge.




DB: It’s just another wedge in the insanity of these crippled people.


MCJ: When we do it and when we show people it can be done and it’s not a mess. We are still a functional society. We are still the 8th largest economy in the world and we’re going to get larger. What really makes me happy is when we read the literature of the proposition. It talks a lot about the ability to do testing in California. Those are the things that really get me excited. I think there is a real lack of legitimate testing. If there is to be any real testing done I think it should be between states like Colorado and California where the Universities are more open-minded, if you will. As of now, you have to go to Mississippi, as you probably know, to get actual legal samples and it’s very difficult to do as it is in its current process.


DB: You see, where you have states where it is legal, you can bypass that whole thing.  That is the beauty of what we are doing with Cannabis Science Inc.


MCJ: I’ve been meaning to ask you for an update. You and your colleagues were working on some things that may have required some FDA approval.


DB: Well, ultimately what we want is the FDA approval so that anybody can go into a pharmacy anywhere in the country and have cannabis medicines available to them.


MCJ: For our readers Dr. Bob, what is Cannabis Science Inc.


DB: Cannabis Science Inc, is a publicly traded company a simple CBIS. We are on the bulletin board. What we are trying to do is to get these oral cannabis-based medicines thru the FDA for treatment in particular for Veterans for PTSD and chronic pain.


The issue of PTSD is a huge issue, in comparison to ten years ago, for obvious reasons.


DB: You always had the victims of sexual abuse or physical abuse that can suffer from PTSD. There has always been traumatic-incidents. We had the Vietnam War. Of course those percentages will be amplified by periods of war.


MCJ: Do you feel it is a very effective treatment for Post Traumatic Stress?


DB: We did a survey of around 1500 Veterans to see their opinion of using marijuana to treat PTSD. There were a number of indications. One was for sleep, irritability and unpleasant intrusive memories. Those are some of the main problems that people with PTSD have. They all rated cannabis very highly for all three of those. That is why they choose to use it.


Think of this screwed up situation. We have this group of young people who because of a political situation end up going to war. You’d have to trust them with your freedom. These are the people who fight for our freedom. Then they come home and they are screwed up mentally and physically and they say, “This drug works better for ME. I lost part of my health for YOU.” Yet, these people, these BLP’s, these Prohibitionist they’ll say that feel that there isn’t enough evidence to consider this phenomena as fact.


MCJ: It must be too much work.


DB: You deserve it, because you were injured for us. We abandon you now because we don’t feel that you have the integrity to choose for yourself which medicine works. Now think about how scary that is!


MCJ: That really is. I think that if more people realized the impact that PTSD has on our Veterans and realize that they are using it regularly for relief. I would hope that the general public would understand why they look to this plant for relief. I guess we’ll see.


DB: You’ve got to keep in mind that The Veterans Administration recently announced that the Veterans using medical cannabis legally in those states that allow, will no longer be harassed or penalized for using a medicine that is healthy for you and works. We’re going to let you slide now.


MCJ: As long as you are in one of those certain states, yeah. I had another question about Cannabis Science projects. You had said you were working on some kind of a lozenge maybe or something like it?


DB: We were looking at it a lozenge format. To me really, the method of administration isn’t relevant. There are so many ways that you can deliver an oral medicine. Right now we are working with the FDA, once that is complete we could really assess it. Under those circumstances we will be fluid cannabinoid endowed and we will see what makes the most sense at that time.


MCJ: There is a product that is available in Europe called Sativex.


DB: That isn’t necessarily the best option. One strain, one ratio, it has alcohol in it, people are going to want to use it regularly. They are likely to get sore throats.


MCJ: Oh wow, I didn’t know that.


DB: We are interested in ultimately providing different varieties based on genetic characteristics we know are present are there. That is the beauty of what Cannabis Science can do. Normal pharmaceutical companies, when they come up with a drug. On one end they get to patent their drug, but on the other end they are sticking chemicals into human beings that have never been in humans before.


MCJ: Right.


DB: Half of the time, studies that they do in regards to safety and efficacy are not done long enough or thoroughly enough. They define a very narrow path. They go down that path and they meet certain requirements then it is okay to make certain statements. That is how the whole thing works.


MCJ: Right. I think most of the education from these drugs come in the first several years before it goes to generic for. I think a lot of these drugs don’t even make it to the generic forms.


DB: Many don’t ever make it out there at all.


MCJ: Right.


DB: That’s the difference here. We have cannabis, which has been used safely for thousands of years. You can make in the state of Colorado, whatever formulation you want and try it out. By the time you go to the FDA you know exactly what you are doing. You know what is going to work because you’ve already tested it. There is a variety of interesting opportunities.


Another real interesting thing, it relates back to the discussion we were having about cannabis and cancer and the Len Richmond movie. There is a foundation here in Colorado Springs called the Rick Simpson Foundation. They are helping terminally ill patients get free high-dose therapy along the lines of Rick Simpson’s formula.


MCJ: I was going to ask you about Rick. I’ve been in touch, we talk a few times a month. The last conversation we had, I asked if there was anything he would choose to tell our readers. His message was to start listening to people like Dr. Melemede. My question to you is, what do you think of the administration of Hemp Oil in this method? Do you believe that this concentration is good?


DB: It has taken me a long time to get over my backward-lookingness with respect to believing that there is a high probability that cannabis would actually cure cancer in individuals. I must say that I think that is more and more likely. I’ve just met too many people who have had anecdotal cures that always correspond to cannabis use. They may be trying this alternative therapy and that conventional treatment, xrays, chemo, etc. People that seem to be having the miraculous cures that keep shocking the doctors are the ones who are also always using cannabis.


MCJ: Right.


DB: When you put that together with the science that I know and understand, both with respect to cannabis but also what I understand about physics and life as well. It seems that cannabis might be the only way to truly cure cancer. Instead of trying to plug a leak in the dyke and stop health from draining down this unhealthy pathway by blocking it, which is what conventional treatments are trying to do. They are trying to block that negative path toward cancer growth. Instead that path may only exist really, when that organism is not moving in the opposite direction towards health. That when you holistically restore health throughout the organism, that is what makes the cancer die. The environment for that type of cell is no longer appropriate and that includes all of our bodily expenses that would then be utilized to create that essentially terminal situation for the cancer cells. Cannabis, I believe, can restore health in very unique ways.


Think of this. The government has these same 500 reports that I do right? Why is it that if there is the possibility that cannabis will cure cancer, and you have these testimonials of these people Rick Simpson has helped, you have the science, you have the historical use of cannabis being used to treat tumors. When you are spending $9 billions dollars a year to arrest Americans for cannabis use, why would the government now spend a few million to do a clinical trial and find out whether or not this stuff really cures cancer? That’s like a no-brainer again. It’s proof that we have insane people running the government.


MCJ: That is echoing a lot of the things that Rick talks about too. As far as the doctors, the politicians, the news, they are kind of all bought and paid for. In order to get real information out, it’s not really the process we think it is. It is much more of a disturbing process if you will.


DB: That is why this foundation is so important. As they are treating patients and start to accumulate testimonials and data, it is going to become so public that it is going to have to be seen. It could reach critical levels.


Think of what happened in Russia, the Soviet Union. The wall came down and they didn’t have any organization that made that happen. They didn’t have a revolution in a conventional sense. They had a revolution of thought. The people collectively reached one of these far from equilibrium phase-change points and they all said, “screw this, we aren’t playing these stupid games because of government anymore.” And they didn’t! And the government was gone. That is what is going to happen with cannabis prohibition. It is going to just be gone when enough people realize the benefits for themselves, their families and the planet. Prohibition will be gone. You’ll still have that small sub-fraction that are the equivalent of those knock-out mice that you can never convince because they are broken. They will continue to be broken until they die off.


MCJ: You did appear in Toronto at the Treating Yourself Medical Marijuana & Hemp Expo last month. Are you going to be doing more things like it or have you and I’ve missed it?


DB: Yeah, I do a lot of them. I talk at some of them. I missed Hempfest. I did the 420University. There is a plant expo coming up soon here in Colorado. I do a lot of them, I do Patients Out of Time.


MCJ: Just in the last couple of weeks I’ve been talking to Mark Pederson. We are going to team up and put out more info since that is what we both do. How did you get involved with them?


DB: You know, I don’t remember. I think I was invited to speak. That is a wonderful organization by the way. It’s really the best


MCJ: Tell us about it.


DB: It is because it is a mix of patients and doctors and health care providers, law enforcement and such. It is all factually and scientifically presented. It is excellent. You have the resonance of all of those different kinds of people seeing what is going on. Rafi Mishoulam from Israel usually works with them. He is really the grandfather of cannabis. He built the structure of THC and synthesized it. He discovered anandamide, our first cannabinoid. He has done just wonderful work and in collaboration with people all over the world.


MCJ: I haven’t had the chance to meet him yet but I understand he’s fantastic. I met someone who worked with him a while back who gave me a movie called Prescribed Grass. He actually made it, but has some connection to Rafi Mishoulam. I hope to one day interview him. I didn’t realize that he was a part of patients out of time. I feel very lucky that they have involved us in this. I’m not really a journalist. I’m better at putting things together and rounding things up and getting out the print. I do write. To have you to interview and other things from Patients Out of Time is just a wonderful thing for us. You just kind of verified my reasoning for that.


DB: They are an excellent group and I love the meetings.


MCJ: There were a few things that we talked about a bit in the last interview, but I wanted to touch on it again. You were telling us about the man that helped guide this process of understanding cannabinoids for you. What was his name?


DB: Illio Prigagene. He became the solution to my quest to understand what life is. When I was an undergraduate back in the 60’s was when the genetic code was discovered. So now we understood why there was life, the DNA and RNA was like little copies of the genes and enzymes made reactions happen. All life had that basic phenomenon characterizing it. What we still didn’t understand is how did that get to be there? What makes that happen? So I took a course on thermodynamics, but it was equilibrium thermodynamics. Life is the opposite of equilibrium, so of course from the equilibrium view life can’t exist. Then I discovered Prigagene’s work and I realized, with lots of effort because I’m a mathematical moron, I was able to osmose what he’s got going on there and then apply that to my knowledge of biology and my life. My life is essentially an experiment. What I’m doing is trying to apply to those principles to my life. I think this is an important thing for people to consider. If there is an underlying physics that has created life. It seems that the way everything works is far from equilibrium thermodynamics. Our lives, societies, economic systems, all of that are all a part of a natural unfolding that occurs when you have energy and mass flowing.


MCJ: Very interesting stuff. If you had a message to our readers, what would it be.


DB: In my experience, the most important thing has been to embrace the concepts of energy flow and the creative nature of it. Also the unique and magical role that the endocannabinoid system and thru it cannabis plays in our lives and our very being. The purpose is for us to survive and enjoy the process rather than the alternative which is not likely to be pleasant. So we should all learn and spread the truth and make change happen. It will happen just by having enough people know and understand. 


© This article is copyrighted by Medical Cannabis Journal 05-25-2013


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